What would make VaultWiki easier for new users?

[pegasus]

Like vBulletin's BB-Code FAQ, there is a Wiki BB-Code FAQ. There is a link to it from vBulletin's FAQ and Special:Specialpages, but it is at showwiki.php?title=Special:WikiCodeList

You can always add a link to it at the bottom of the posting screen as you mentioned, just make sure your permissions are set so that your users can see this page.

 

[Jav]

Provide sample config files with explanation of what setings might be used, what they do and why.

Improve documentation addressed to a lower level user. I still do not understand many of the
functions/features and the logic behind their name bewilders me. Keep it simple.

Get a beta tester program happening with as many different setups as possible. These beta testers
would find issues before normal users and the issues could be addressed.

 

[stev]

I second Jav on the sample config idea with explanation

Vaultwiki is such feature rich, it actually hurts the adoption of it if there's no easy to follow manual.

Regarding "the logic behind their name", it's kind of a different wiki language so it's somewhat cryptic, even an experience and very good programmer like MicroHellas would find it confusing

 

[InformationNirvana]

I would like to suggest an easy to understand, step by 'baby' step... POINTER and click walk thru on video, (camera pointed to the screen setup) including every part of the setup process and extension setups, creating the wiki categories. (creating a category for all cats of the wiki) like on my lamp site which is now in crisis.... vbtube pro has this video and that software is a breeze to setup compared to the wiki.

For 2 weeks I kept reading the instructions thinking, ok I will get it, it will dawn on me... it never did as you know.

I love the wiki, it's just needs video instructions.

Thanks. That's the second time video instructions have been suggested. As we're also a video production company and have a custom flash player, it should be a breeze to set up, once we find a place in the schedule to create the videos.

Sometime in July 2009: Is there a video demo on how to create a wiki book available yet?

Pegasus ... make some simple easy videos.
Think up 2 important things to get across.
Maybe tailor it to the new Lite users.

If you are stuck for software choices ... try something like .. JING.

http://www.jingproject.com/

Once you get good at Jing, you can just make a quick video after you add the feature ! It's a natural process.

I'll try to find some other software options for you. Check out JING though. It's quite cool stuff.

 

[Cort]

I really appreciate this thread and your throwing this open to users. The problems here are endemic for people who write software - you're certainly not alone. VBulletin has the same problem - they think simply elucidating characteristics of the software is enough - and if you want to learn it bad enough it is - but it could be so much easier. If this product is intended to be used by people without technical experience then you would do yourself a world of good simply by doing a step by step show me project; ie I'm going to create a WIKI on X subject; first I add this, then I do this...at this point I have these options....

Right now I'm stuck on these name spaces. The documentation states a namespace is a group of Forums. Then it says namespaces are where articles are located. Honestly I don't know what you mean by Forums or articles. I want to use the WIKI to create and work on projects. Is a project a Forum that contains Articles?

In the Namespace manager on the other hand, Namespaces appear to be general designations for different kinds of Features - templates, headers, books, categories, images - those aren't Forums.

 

[Cort]

It looks like a great product - a step by step - how to create your first WIKI - would be invaluable. Several people on my Forums are trying to figure this out - none have succeeded thus far.

 

[pegasus]

Think of it this way:

You save your threads, posts, topics, whatever you want to call them in forums and sub-forums. That is a basic concept of vBulletin.

"Namespaces" is just a word, and some people tend to get hung up on the fact that they haven't heard of it before. In the "Namespace" Manager, you select forums / sub-forums so you can save wiki articles in them. That's it!

While yes, you can designate different kinds of features to them too, that's not really important to think about until you want to enable that particular feature.

Step-by-step how to create your wiki videos have been requested in the past. Setting something like this up, I agree, is a great idea, and even though we've had the resources available to do something like it, we haven't had significant enough time to dedicate to a video documentation project. That said, recently we've been hiring additional hands to help reduce the workload on the core dev/support team (which was mostly myself for a while there), so we may be able to dedicate some manpower to such a project some time next quarter.

 

[vimto]

I think the major problem with *all* projects is that you have developers, and users of which there are two different mindsets. A developer will have a list of features that they think the user wants, and the user has to learn to use these features and make the best use of them, although they don't always do what the user wants. (I'm not saying this is a bad thing)

I work in an industry that makes specialist injection mouldings of which our D&D team are situated in another building, they build apparatus for our staff to work on, but have no real knowledge of how the items they build will be used in a factory enviroment. The end result is that our staff work and complain about how the things are used.....Now if the D&D team were to spend some time working with the staff there would be no problem whatsoever and that is what I commend the creators for vaultwiki for, they spend a LOT of time working with us to find out what we want and add it into the next build of the wiki.

Feedback is a wonderful thing
-------------

Now, what would make Vaultwiki easier to use for me?

Firstly, making it easier to create a home page for the wiki, at the moment we have a Tab at the top in the menu bar and subsequent links when the wiki is open to take you to the home page.

When I click on the Wiki Tab I get taken to a Special page that lists all the different categories of the wiki (This I do not want, it's confusing for the users) I would prefer to be able to easily set this to a self-created wiki home page.

The links above the wiki, We have the option of clicking on Wiki, or (List), when clicking on Wiki I have it set to take me to my self-created home page, but I don't like having the (List) option there, a user does not need to see this, most of my users will think it's a forum to post messages in and that defeats the object of having it there.

So in summary, Have the Wiki tab set by default to take us to some kind of index page that is totally customisable with a simple screen, maybe have a table for Pages, books, categories (keep things like special pages away from the general user, they sometimes get click-happy and don't really need to see these things). Remove the (list) option, they don't need to see this either.

Maybe have a look at some other mods for VB and create a cms type homepage for the wiki, (I personly don't like the current one, that logo blots out too much info and I can't change it!!)

Keep things simple for the user, but let the admins keep their current features (maybe have a preview as user for all-pages option)

 

[pegasus]

When I click on the Wiki Tab I get taken to a Special page that lists all the different categories of the wiki (This I do not want, it's confusing for the users) I would prefer to be able to easily set this to a self-created wiki home page.

... I don't like having the (List) option there, a user does not need to see this, most of my users will think it's a forum to post messages in and that defeats the object of having it there.

... that logo blots out too much info and I can't change it!!

You can set the Wiki tab to show a different page in Settings > Options > VaultWiki: Server Settings. Just type in an existing wiki URL, and it will map that page to the wiki home URL (with proper 301 forwarding).

The List option is unfortunately a necessary evil to allow moderation of many articles at once. If you create an official feature request, I'm sure we have enough time to add a separate permission for List links so that only the users who need to see it can see it.

The logo can currently be changed in the CSS, but this frequently gets reverted by upgrades (less so than physically replacing the image, but it still occurs). We actually intend to add a stylevar to set the image for the next build, but it might be nice if you could also post the request in the tracker.

 

[Cort]

Think of it this way:

You save your threads, posts, topics, whatever you want to call them in forums and sub-forums. That is a basic concept of vBulletin.

"Namespaces" is just a word, and some people tend to get hung up on the fact that they haven't heard of it before. In the "Namespace" Manager, you select forums / sub-forums so you can save wiki articles in them. That's it!

While yes, you can designate different kinds of features to them too, that's not really important to think about until you want to enable that particular feature.

Step-by-step how to create your wiki videos have been requested in the past. Setting something like this up, I agree, is a great idea, and even though we've had the resources available to do something like it, we haven't had significant enough time to dedicate to a video documentation project. That said, recently we've been hiring additional hands to help reduce the workload on the core dev/support team (which was mostly myself for a while there), so we may be able to dedicate some manpower to such a project some time next quarter.

Thanks. I know one person can't do it all ....I would think, though, that a quick text document showing how to create a project would be very helpful.

A. Create a WIKI project on say "The World Cup" - its history, teams involved, key play players, matchups, etc.
B. Show how to create the page, the Forums, create articles - put them into Books, etc.

That would make things much easier. My WIKI is going to be pretty simple - forum members are basically going to work on documents. If I had a document like that I just download your example to them. After I learn WIKI - I'm going to have to create a document like that so that my forum members can learn how to use it.

 

[Cort]

You reply was very helpful - its a very easy system to use once you get it.

 

[InformationNirvana]

Firstly, making it easier to create a home page for the wiki, at the moment we have a Tab at the top in the menu bar and subsequent links when the wiki is open to take you to the home page.

When I click on the Wiki Tab I get taken to a Special page that lists all the different categories of the wiki (This I do not want, it's confusing for the users) I would prefer to be able to easily set this to a self-created wiki home page.

Good idea.

The links above the wiki, We have the option of clicking on Wiki, or (List), when clicking on Wiki I have it set to take me to my self-created home page, but I don't like having the (List) option there, a user does not need to see this, most of my users will think it's a forum to post messages in and that defeats the object of having it there.

Agreed.

 

[Jella]

I would like to see here on VW, many and I mean many template variations with the output examples, including corners and tiny images implanted into the tables... that we could use on our wikis, ... err, cough, well you know for those of us who are 'challenged'

I also want to say that the support here at VaultWiki by especially Ted, (and of course others who can assist) is the best I have ever seen. Ted knows what he is doing. I don't know how he juggles thing? Amazing. I for one am very grateful.

 

[pegasus]

I will see what I can do about getting more Templates created, but I don't really know what would be helpful. We can write some little docs explaining the Templates we do have, and how they can be used.

Thankfully, it's been a little easier for me to juggle everything recently since I have two more people helping me out (albeit only part time), and we're hoping to add another very soon. Right now it's myself doing a majority of the coding / support, with another person working on the docs, and another helping out debugging the code I write.

 

[Cort]

I must agree. The documentation is very difficult to use and understand and I read English perfectly. I also have an undergrad in Computer Engineering, an MBA and have created a number of custom PHP applications for my site.... And I'm still having trouble figuring it all out...

Here's the thing, I don't know if documentation will ever be sufficient, no matter the technical or language barriers that some users may or may not have.

What I'm finding to be most difficult is building the Wiki with namespaces, etc. I would suggest going a different route -- include an optional "sample installation" for users. 5-10 basic pages, standard namespaces, etc.... Then, they could see it built, see how it works on their own sites, and then modify the sample or build their own new one based on the sample and the current documentation.

I think you're missing the forest for the trees and I imagine its only hurting your bottom line. If you have people not using this product or asking for their money back then you have a real problem. I would never, ever recommend this product to anyone as it stands right now. It sits basically unused on my Forums because nobody can figure out how to use it. I was planning to write a tutorial that explained how to use it but I can't figure out very basic aspects of it based on the documentation. (I suspect that I made a mistake early on which warped the structure of my WIKI and now I can't figure how to fix it. )

Whats frustrating to me is that you've been sent a clear message that your clients are having trouble using this program yet you've failed to create even a simple demo project - something that I imagine could be done very quickly ( a couple of hours). Simply a word document walking someone through the creation of a WIKI with books and everything would be so helpful.

Here we are three months later - you say you have more time now - and yet, unless I've missed something you've done nothing to address these issues. Clearly they're not a priority - my opinion is that you should make them a priority!

 

[pegasus]

Since we are on the subject of documentation...

The problem with creating a "simple" demo tutorial is we can't include "everything" and it still be simple. Even if we did a series of video tutorials that show what to do to make an example wiki, to keep it simple, we'd have to end up recreating the current organization (or something very similar) of the manual in videos, and it would pretty much say the same things.

You mention creating a wiki with Books. As an example, is the following section of the documentation still very hard to understand? This has been written this way since at least June, when you made your initial comments about not understanding namespaces and we rewrote a substantial amount of the manual.

http://www.vaultwiki.org/books/Introduction-to-Books

Continuing to address documentation issues have not been a priority since June, because since we finished the manual rewrite, there really have not been any complaints figuring out how to use VaultWiki - except one case that was related to permissions not being set properly.

Instead we are attempting to address any future or unreported issues by tackling it directly in the way the software is designed. This is why you may have seen discussions sprinkled around the forum about a new version we'll be making over the next few months. We believe that making it easier to use is much of a higher priority than making duplicates of the existing documentation in different forms (video, PDF, etc), especially since they would all need to be re-done once the re-design+re-code is complete.

 

[Alfa1]

Video tutorials are actually a very good idea. My members would love video tutorials for end users and it would surely increase the use of Vaultwiki.

 

[Mokonzi]

I'm prepared to help with any information or ideas being implemented as I get the time to do it. I've been with VW for a long time now, and get how most features work reasonably well.

Perhaps the solution might be to take a brand new user, and work our way through all their questions and then produce a community driven help wiki.

I understand the major issues that there are with writing manuals up on how things work, I can struggle that myself without someone giving me a clear question they want to answer.

So here's a suggestion on how this might be rectified.

We've got the Tutorials namespace here. How about a way of inputting content there, working our way through a development process, users contributing, and pegasus clarifying if we have any errors in it. It could be an idea for pegasus to work out a way of us being able to process/transfer the Tutorial into other wikis. i.e. when an upgrade comes through, it includes the option to install the Tutorial namespace, which would include an import of the Tutorials created here and their images, or if it's already installed, update it. That way each wiki community can benefit from an already existing and tried and tested help system, that is community driven, appropriate to what the Wiki is intended for in the first place.

This product is probably the best major extension of vBs capabilities outside Jelsoft and vBulletin IMO, and I would like it to be more widely available and used. If we as a community not only contribute financially but also by our collective knowledge and input, the product grows and gets better.

If pegasus is ok with this idea, we could start a Social Group that will become the focus on such a project, and we can collaborate from ground up on how we can start this off.

 

[pegasus]

I've been waiting for a while now for the "Tutorial" namespace to start taking off. Please go ahead and do whatever you see fit to organize and fill it. As far as process/transfer of a whole namespace, this is something that's difficult because of naming conventions on sites that may or may not match, and something I'm not quite sure our servers can handle unless we perform some major hardware upgrades.

As far as providing self-contained Tutorial documents like a PDF or HTML compilation, this would be easier to accomplish, but such an export mechanism is not something we have planned until after 3.1.0 Gold. Development on this major sub-version is already under way, but we will likely not see a beta until at least a month after XenForo opens for business.

 

[Mokonzi]

I'll see what I can do. My suggestions was not so much to integrate the data that exists, but with each software update include an xml import of that data into the wiki with the download, the xml being taken at the point of the software update and not after, unless you wanted to create a periodic update for it based on any changed content that might fall out of cycle. But the regular maintenance releases should be enough. If any new changes were incorporated before they went to public release, we could then add any additionally required content.