Questions about VaultWiki for XF 2.1

[sbj]

Hey,

I am interested in VaultWiki and want to know if VaultWiki is a product which I can use long-term-wise.

I am not sure if I missed it but I cannot find updated/current product screenshots for the front-end and back-end to see what options are available and what features can be used. And showcasing examples would be also good. Feel free to link them if I did miss those.

Now, to my questions:


1. The feature list was updated last year (April 8, 2018) and from what I read, there is a new BETA for XF 2.1. What new features not listed on the feature list have been added since then, if any?

2. Is there a "convert threads into wiki" option available?

3. Is there a "convert wiki into thread" option available? (Just in case the product is ditched or one wants to no longer use the addon, can we go back seamlessly to the default XF threads?)

4. If addon is uninstalled, are all database entries deleted? So no left-over codes?

5. Are you accepting suggestions to add new features?

6. How does the autolink/keyword management work in general?

7. Is there a method/feature/php script to add in bulk Wiki items/pages? Let's say I have a list of names with 1000 names, can I create a page for each name in one-go or do I have to create all manually?

8. Is there a filter navigation (widget) available?

9. Is there a categories navigation (widget) available?

10. Is there an alphabetical navigation (widget) available, maybe like this?

11. Can we tie each wiki pages with 1 thread only? No comments, it just uses the default XF threads as comment section?

12. Is the system integrated with custom thread fields?

13. Can we create an image gallery for each wiki page?


These are my questions so far. Thank you.

[ACL]

Hi sbj,

First up, I'm not associated with VaultWiki, just a customer.

I thought you might be interested in the VaultWiki XF front-end demo (powered by XF 2.1): https://www.vaultwiki.org/xf-wiki/index.php?wiki/

Or the 4.1.x changelog documentation: https://www.vaultwiki.org/pages/Book...:Changelog-4-1. Currently, this only mentions the Alpha 1-3 builds. At a guess, I'd say pegasus (VW developer) will add an entry for Beta 1 changes soon(ish)...

There is also a list of feature requests (some implemented, others not): https://www.vaultwiki.org/support/4X...typeid=feature

New requests can be posted at the link above (Post New Feature button).

[sbj]

Thanks.

The front-end demo doesn't look very inviting.

First, the site loads slow. Not sure if it is the system which is slow or the server.

Second, I honestly don't understand the "Wiki Areas". What is that, what are the sub-categories?

For example I cliked on Template->Vague and now I see this page? What is this page?
Template:Vague

Edit: So it doesn't even have its own url? Clicking on the link I posted redirects you to the index page.

I see that this addon seem to have a lot of features, but it looks so confusing and not tightly integrated with XF's standard navigational behaviour.

Thanks.

[ACL]

There is a bug with certain URLs on this vBulletin-based forum which causes many of those XF demo links to point to the index. The problem is an extra = character is added:
https://www.vaultwiki.org/xf-wiki/index.php?wiki/=&title=Template:Vague

The workaround I've come up with is to put the link into a code box

https://www.vaultwiki.org/xf-wiki/index.php?wiki/=&title=Template:Vague

EDIT: Well now my workaround doesn't work either... great !

But I'll be honest, there are a number of 'huh??' pages on the XF demo, since it gets used for testing bugs sometimes.

The wiki areas is one of the reasons that brought me over to VaultWiki at the time my site migrated to XenForo. Compared to MediaWiki, areas provide some mandatory structure and hierarchy to pages, instead of having problems of 'uncategorized' pages being really difficult to find. I guess you could think of them as filling a similar role that categories and forums do for grouping threads/posts - could you imagine how awkward it would be if XenForo threads/posts were only discoverable with tags?

Template pages are basically designed to be embedded into other normal pages. Like for instance, if you had a site that documented movies/tv, then you might have a 'Spoilers' template that inserts a 'No spoilers' warning box at the top of the pages that relate to movies in the cinema.

[sbj]

EDIT: Well now my workaround doesn't work either... great !

Let's hope it is just an exception and the wiki articles/pages etc. work without problems.

But I'll be honest, there are a number of 'huh??' pages on the XF demo, since it gets used for testing bugs sometimes.

And honestly, I don't understand most of the stuff there. In the feature list or in the changelog documentation I couldn't find stuff related what I see on the demo page.

The wiki areas is one of the reasons that brought me over to VaultWiki at the time my site migrated to XenForo.

I understand but is this the default structure for any forum? So is this the default landing page of the wiki? And from there we can navigate through wiki articles/pages? Because right now it is very confusing and I can't find much. Is there a live website I can take a look at?

Compared to MediaWiki, areas provide some mandatory structure and hierarchy to pages, instead of having problems of 'uncategorized' pages being really difficult to find. I guess you could think of them as filling a similar role that categories and forums do for grouping threads/posts - could you imagine how awkward it would be if XenForo threads/posts were only discoverable with tags?

I understand you perfectly, but why doesn't it use a navigation sidebar just like the rest of XF? It would be much more easier to navigate. Like the "categories" sidebar nav on XF2 Resource Manager.

Template pages are basically designed to be embedded into other normal pages. Like for instance, if you had a site that documented movies/tv, then you might have a 'Spoilers' template that inserts a 'No spoilers' warning box at the top of the pages that relate to movies in the cinema.

I see, it just when I go to the template->spoiler it has this embedded

<div height="40" width="250" style="float:right; border: 1px #c0c0c0 dash; background: #ffffcc; color: #000000; margin-width: 5px">[b][size="2"]Spoiler Warning[/size]: [i]The following contains plot/ending information[/i].[/b]</div>

So I don't quite understand what each wiki area categories are and what to do with them. A 5 minute explaining tutorial would have been great. I see that VaultWiki is 10 years old, nobody ever thought of doing an explanation video?

It is not about the money in this case. I am just not sure if I can commit to this or not. I am planning on adding thousands of Wiki pages for my niche and I am afraid of wasting my time. I can always use basic XF threads as wiki pages in the worst case scenario.

[ACL]

Here is a real basic example of using a template:
https://www.vaultwiki.org/xf-wiki/in...lates-e-g-stub
(remove the = before the & to fix URL on this forum)

The template being embedded just contains a line of text surrounded by [i][/i] BBcode. Still, if a site was filled with 100's of 'stub' pages, this template would lower some of the repetition from not having to type out the message each time.

An actual example of how my site uses a template is for a 'product replacement' information box with the name of the replacement (specified as a template parameter). The site does not sell the products but has information about them, and this template provides a way to point people who land at an archived product page to the new version. Old product pages are not deleted since they may hold useful information for people who already own the old version of a product.

why doesn't it use a navigation sidebar

Since XF2.x has the widget system, this is a good question to ask. If an areas navigation widget existed, then it would be possible for site admins add it to the sidenav or sidebar widget positions. I have suggested this as an XF2.x feature: https://www.vaultwiki.org/issues/5582/

Is there a live website I can take a look at?

There are a couple of people on this site who I believe are running the VaultWiki 4.1 beta with XenForo 2.x for their public site(s). If they see this thread then they might decide to share a link.

[sbj]

Can you pm me your website so I can take a look how VaultWiki may look like? It is okay if it is XF1.

[Alfa1]

New Features in VW4.1
https://www.vaultwiki.org/projectsea...&searchid=5950

Convert threads to wiki:
https://www.vaultwiki.org/issues/4852/
Feel free to reply to it.

Post suggestions here or reply to a suggestion to state your support:
https://www.vaultwiki.org/support/4X...typeid=feature

11. Can we tie each wiki pages with 1 thread only? No comments, it just uses the default XF threads as comment section?

Not yet, but its planned. Please read this thread and add your support: https://www.vaultwiki.org/issues/4696/

12. Is the system integrated with custom thread fields?

Unfortunately not. Post your support here: https://www.vaultwiki.org/issues/5523/

13. Can we create an image gallery for each wiki page?

No, there is no gallery widget nor something similar to what showcase, Article Management System, etc have.
Wiki attachments reside in separate wiki pages. There is a new wiki page for every attachment. Then the images are added to the wiki article by bbcode. IMHO the vaultwiki attachment system is the weakest part of an otherwise great system. Fortunately integration with XFMG and XFRM is planned: https://www.vaultwiki.org/issues/5445/

The front-end demo doesn't look very inviting.

Agreed. The demo looks bad. This is mostly because of the stuff added to it and how it is setup. IMHO vaultwiki could use a better main page / portal. Its not visually appealing and does not advertise important content.

but it looks so confusing and not tightly integrated with XF's standard navigational behaviour.

You are correct on both counts.

First, the site loads slow.

Dont worry. Its fast.

So it doesn't even have its own url?

It does have its own URL.

So I don't quite understand what each wiki area categories are and what to do with them.

An area can be compared to a forum or to a showcase category. The term category is used differently in wiki. Wiki categories are essentially like forum tags.

[sbj]

New Features in VW4.1
https://www.vaultwiki.org/projectsea...&searchid=5950

Link doesn't work.

Convert threads to wiki:
https://www.vaultwiki.org/issues/4852/
Feel free to reply to it.

So it is implemented? But no revert back option I guess?

Post suggestions here or reply to a suggestion to state your support:
https://www.vaultwiki.org/support/4X...typeid=feature

I mean I could go through all pages and for those I wish to see I could leave a reply or a like or whatever.
But I am not sure how useful that is considering I am not a customer.

Not yet, but its planned. Please read this thread and add your support: https://www.vaultwiki.org/issues/4696/

Hmm. Not sure about the "planned" situation. The suggestion is from 2016. The last reply to it is in 1Q of 2018 saying it will be done in 4Q of 2018, we are half-through 2Q of 2019. This doesn't look very promising honestly, no offense intended.

Unfortunately not. Post your support here: https://www.vaultwiki.org/issues/5523/

I understand that not every forum uses Custom Thread Fields. For me it is the bread and butter. I at least would expect this addon to be integrated with the core functions of XF2, like widgets, navigation or Custom Thread Fields. Obviously probably other stuff could be more important and has the priority, but in my case this is problematic.

No, there is no gallery widget nor something similar to what showcase, Article Management System, etc have.
Wiki attachments reside in separate wiki pages. There is a new wiki page for every attachment. Then the images are added to the wiki article by bbcode. IMHO the vaultwiki attachment system is the weakest part of an otherwise great system. Fortunately integration with XFMG and XFRM is planned: https://www.vaultwiki.org/issues/5445/

Well this sounds very confusing and clunky. Also I don't think it is a good idea to use the XFMG as the image gallery for the wiki. XFMG is not very good, it would be wasted time and effort to integrate that with the wiki. I would suggest to build your own image gallery, a very light one (like Bob's).

Agreed. The demo looks bad. This is mostly because of the stuff added to it and how it is setup. IMHO vaultwiki could use a better main page / portal. Its not visually appealing and does not advertise important content.

Well it is okay if stuff is added to it. I just can't differentiate between what is a feature, what is a test and what is an example.

It does have its own URL.

Yes, it does. But it doesn't work. Copying and pasting it redirects me to the mainpage.

An area can be compared to a forum or to a showcase category. The term category is used differently in wiki. Wiki categories are essentially like forum tags.

Okay, I understand. But what does each area do, that is the question.

Thanks.

[sbj]

It would have been great to get answers to my first post, but I believe the dev is busy.

Anyway thanks and good luck with this project.

[pegasus]

1) I believe this has been answered before, but the beta has the following new features so far:

• Alpha 1
• Alpha 3
• Beta 1 added: XF 2.1 Bookmarks

2) Yes, you can convert threads to wiki pages.

3) Converting wiki back to threads is not currently available, but can be implemented based on demand.

4) When uninstalled, all database entries are removed. However, the uninstall process will not edit your posts in non-wiki parts of your forum. If your users used wiki BB-Codes in regular forum posts they will obviously no longer work. You would have the same problem with any other add-ons/custom BB-Codes that you remove (such as XFMG's GALLERY). Like any other add-on with custom BB-Codes, you will need to setup fake custom BB-Codes or something along those lines after you uninstall them.

5) We take suggestions for new features all the time. In general we weigh various factors such as the scope of the feature, votes for it, perceived benefit, and parity with general forum features or existing features, when determining whether to accept and the timing for development and release. So it varies by request. Generally speaking, simple requests tend to be implemented sooner than large/major ones.

6) Autolinking works on an exact match basis. If there is a wiki page with the same title as a term that appears in post content, it could be linked. You can tweak this using forum controls, and it respects other BB-Codes in the post that might already be surrounding the term.

7) There is no premade script that bulk adds wiki pages, as the source format can be different depending on your needs. However, you can write code that uses VaultWiki's data management classes, or you can write your own importer to plug into VaultWiki's import system.

8) I don't know what you mean by this.

9) Of course you can navigate a category from the category's page itself, which contains an alphabetic list of all category contents. Categories that were added to a page are listed in a widget at the bottom of that page.

10) Wiki categories are alphabetic. See #9.

11) There is a feature request to add tools for linking wiki pages with related threads and starting new threads. Currently if you wish to do that, you would need to do it manually. So we recommend using the standard comments sections for now.

12) XenForo's custom thread fields were first added to XenForo in 2.0. Since our 2.0-compatible version is still in beta and especially since 2.1 was released after we already started alpha, we are not done rolling out support for all the possible tie-ins that were added to XenForo. We expect to add as many of these as possible, including custom field support, before announcing VaultWiki 4.1 as stable.

13) There are a number of manual ways to create galleries, either using VaultWiki's GALLERY tag or using XFMG's GALLERY tag, but both require uploading the images separately before you can use them in your gallery. As was stated earlier in this thread, we have plans to improve this process in 4.2, but we are still working on 4.1 at this time.

Since you expressed confusion about the difference between wiki areas and categories...
Wiki Areas: https://www.vaultwiki.org/pages/Help...VW4:Wiki-Areas
Wiki Categories: https://www.vaultwiki.org/pages/Help...VW4:Categories
Our user manual for VaultWiki 4, which was written about a month after version 4 reached stable status in 2015, describes the different kinds of wiki content and how they can be used.

If you had further questions that were not asked yet or that I overlooked, I'm now watching this thread, so feel free to ask.

The issue with XF-style links posted in vBulletin content ( converting ?xf-route/ to ?xf-route/= ) has been investigated and turned out to be a bug in DragonByte Tech's DBSEO add-on, which we use on our site. We have corrected it on our site. Unfortunately it looks like DBSEO is no longer supported as it has not been updated in over a year and the support forum is not accepting new threads. So for other forums running DBSEO, we have posted patch instructions here: https://www.vaultwiki.org/issues/5760/

[sbj]

4) If your users used wiki BB-Codes in regular forum posts they will obviously no longer work. You would have the same problem with any other add-ons/custom BB-Codes that you remove (such as XFMG's GALLERY).

I understand. I would have to do a sql to replace those entries or use the regex addon of XF.

Btw. can we see a list of VaultWiki BB-Codes?

5) We take suggestions for new features all the time. In general we weigh various factors such as the scope of the feature, votes for it, perceived benefit, and parity with general forum features or existing features, when determining whether to accept and the timing for development and release. So it varies by request. Generally speaking, simple requests tend to be implemented sooner than large/major ones.

Nice that you are open for suggestions. From what I see the support seems to be excellent here considering the addon is huge and a lot of bugs can be found. Nice that one can rely on the dev. On the other hand, it looks like VaultWiki seems very slow in adding new features. Not sure if this is because you offer for both vB and XF the addon, but in the suggestions forum I found a lot of suggestions going back years and VaultWiki took so long to publish a working version for XF2.

6) Autolinking works on an exact match basis. If there is a wiki page with the same title as a term that appears in post content, it could be linked. You can tweak this using forum controls, and it respects other BB-Codes in the post that might already be surrounding the term.

So we can't set in ACP a list of keywords we want to be linked with specific wikis?
Like let's say my wiki page is called "20th Century Film Directors" and link this thread with "Alfred Hitchcock", "Stanley Kubrick, "John Ford" etc.?
So once those names are mentioned in a post, it is linked to that wiki page.

From what I understand it only links exact matches, is this correct?

7) There is no premade script that bulk adds wiki pages, as the source format can be different depending on your needs. However, you can write code that uses VaultWiki's data management classes, or you can write your own importer to plug into VaultWiki's import system.

Well the source format would only included a list of titles. So the script would create blank wiki pages with no content, just with titles according to a list (.txt / .csv /.json whatever).

And what is the import system? What can it import?

8) I don't know what you mean by this.

I don't believe you have it built in. I just wanted to ask. A filter is something like this.

9) Of course you can navigate a category from the category's page itself, which contains an alphabetic list of all category contents. Categories that were added to a page are listed in a widget at the bottom of that page.

Can I see an example of that, maybe a screenshot?

10) Wiki categories are alphabetic. See #9.

Having them alphabetical is good, just I mean't like a "table of contents" widget that there is a "alphabetical widget", where you can click on an letter of the alphabet and the page moves to those entries.

12) We expect to add as many of these as possible, including custom field support, before announcing VaultWiki 4.1 as stable.

That is nice to hear.

Since you expressed confusion about the difference between wiki areas and categories...

My confusion still exists. I am confused about the XF2 VaultWiki demo. I see the areas but I don't understand the difference of the areas, if they do have differences.

If you had further questions that were not asked yet or that I overlooked, I'm now watching this thread, so feel free to ask.

Thanks.

[pegasus]

can we see a list of VaultWiki BB-Codes?

Every site's list will be different and you can rename them all, but here's the default list: https://www.vaultwiki.org/xf-wiki/in...l:WikiCodeList

From what I see the support seems to be excellent here considering the addon is huge and a lot of bugs can be found. Nice that one can rely on the dev. On the other hand, it looks like VaultWiki seems very slow in adding new features. Not sure if this is because you offer for both vB and XF the addon, but in the suggestions forum I found a lot of suggestions going back years and VaultWiki took so long to publish a working version for XF2.

Yeah, the answer to this is basically that there are a lot of factors. As you can imagine, the bigger the add-on gets (as it gets more features), the more bugs can be found. Bug fixes always take priority over new features. And you are correct, because we support multiple forums, when we have to develop what looks like 1 new feature, it actually takes 2 or 3 times the work because of all the supported platforms.

This is true in some regards about XF2. For XF2, we actually started development after it was out about 6 months already, so there's that, and that was due to a lot to personal things that were going on before that time. But at the time we started, we basically decided to rewrite a significant portion of the entire product in order for it to work better on XF2. Those rewrites had to be worked and tested for each platform that we already had. So something that would reasonably take 4-6 months took more like 12-15.

And honestly, in the past, expectations about new features were sometimes unrealistically high. If you come in one day, and decide to post 20 feature requests (it happened), there is no way we can get to all of them in a single release. If you request a bunch of major stuff that can only be responsibly done in a new branch, it has to wait for a future branch (and it won't all be done in a single one!). That kind of thing builds up. And then you have factions who don't like new features outside of new branches, because it destabilizes the product. So we try to keep everyone happy, which amounts to a slow trickle of simple features that shouldn't break anything.

My suggestion is, if you have feature requests, especially big ones, try to break them down into small requests that can be done at different times.

So we can't set in ACP a list of keywords we want to be linked with specific wikis?
Like let's say my wiki page is called "20th Century Film Directors" and link this thread with "Alfred Hitchcock", "Stanley Kubrick, "John Ford" etc.?
So once those names are mentioned in a post, it is linked to that wiki page.

Assuming you don't want separate pages for each of those directors, you would take "20th Century Film Directors" and create synonyms named "Alfred Hitchcock" etc. The synonyms will be autolinked too. If you click on a synonym it will take you to "20th Century Film Directors".

And what is the import system? What can it import?

The import system is run through one of the admin pages. You can basically drop in scripts that are written in a certain directory/class format and it will pick them up as a new importer. On the admin page you choose which importer you want to use and it runs through it. It comes with an importer for MediaWiki and an importer for other copies of VaultWiki. So there are examples you can use. Really, if all you have is a list of titles, you don't even need an importer. Just write a script that loops through them and calls the page DM.

Category listings: https://www.vaultwiki.org/xf-wiki/in...emo&do=listing
Categories on a page: https://www.vaultwiki.org/xf-wiki/in...=Category-Test
(Note the "Category" prefixes in the example -- your categories don't need to have Category in front -- for each page, you can have different text or remove it -- it's just showing the full title)

I see the areas but I don't understand the difference of the areas, if they do have differences.

Areas are created by the admin to organize the wiki content. Areas are to wiki content, what forums/sub-forums are to threads.

On the demo, people don't really use them to organize anything. They just dump their tests wherever they want.

[DaveUK]

Am I right in thinking that if I purchase the XF version, it will give me access to a copy that will run in XF2.1?

[gerryvz]

Am I right in thinking that if I purchase the XF version, it will give me access to a copy that will run in XF2.1?

Yes. Currently the XF 2.1 version of VaultWiki is in an advanced beta stage, but generally speaking it is working pretty well. I'm running the latest version of VaultWiki beta on XF 2.1.6.

If you purchase a XF license for VaultWiki, you will have access to all versions of it that work with versions of XF (1.x and 2.x).