While XenForo is still in its infancy, and not much is known about the hooks system that XenForo has, I do wonder if you are open to the idea to release a XenForo version of Vaultwiki?
http://xenforo.com/community/
While XenForo is still in its infancy, and not much is known about the hooks system that XenForo has, I do wonder if you are open to the idea to release a XenForo version of Vaultwiki?
http://xenforo.com/community/
We are currently considering creating a version of VaultWiki for IPB in the future. However, this would be after the content type rewrite to make the transition easier.
While I am excited to see Kier working on a forum again, it depends how quickly XenForo takes to the market that will determine whether our port will be before or after the IPB port. It also depends if the plugin system that they implement offers at least the same amount of customization that vB3's did. While eval() has its extra overhead, it does allow you to modify anything in the current scope, which listener classes+methods don't really allow, unless they were written to emulate eval, in which case, I don't know if any performance is really saved... The best alternative I think is a file-based plugin system, where instead of eval() it just uses include() based on a registry of files, similar to how scheduled tasks are added in vB.
Some reasons we have been hesitant to support even IPB: http://www.qualityposts.com/ForumMarketShare.php
While I am skeptical of the accuracy of that pie chart, it implies that the four main players are:
- phpBB at < 77.3 %
- vBulletin at < 19 %
- SMF at < 2.3 %
- Invision Power Board at < 0.6%
However, from my own browsing experiences, I'm inclined to agree with the numbers.
I am excited to hear about XenForo, and I guess it would make it to number 5.
However, from a shareholder's standpoint, it would make more fiscal sense to first port VaultWiki for phpBB, then SMF, then IPB, then XenForo. In order to do this, two things would need to be true:
- The content-type rewrite would need to be complete. This would make most of VaultWiki's database content completely separate from main vBulletin data, with the exception of permissions and some other integrations.
- To make code development easier, we would want a single branch that works on all forum software. The code itself would need to be refactored such that:
- Queries are formed dynamically. Joined default tables might have slightly different names and fields.
- Templates are parsed with a similar registry structure like vBulletin 4, so we call the class for whatever software we're running with relative ease.
PHPBB and SMF are free applications, so thats a totally different market. Admins may not be willing to pay for software.
I agree with Alfa1, it wasn't until I moved to vB from phpbb that I even considered buying an addon for my forums. @Alfa1 thanks for the link to xenforo, I'll be keeping an interested eye on this product.
While I understand that not ALL phpBB admins will be open to paying for an addon:
- Commercial phpBB addons are not unheard of. I found a few doing some searches.
- Our stakeholders believe that due to the pure size of the phpBB base, even a small percentage (1%) being "in the market" could be a significant increase in potential client numbers for us.
However, the downsides:
- Paid phpBB addons are harder to find because of even more restrictive rules than vbulletin.org. Having an addon that no one can find is not good. We had that problem for a long time with the vBulletin-compatible release.
- Addons that use phpBB functions have to be released under GPL. I don't see how a product like VaultWiki would never call phpBB functions, especially when installing the product. I think there are some ways around this (like releasing phpBB-compatibility as a free extension to VaultWiki, but they still have to pay for VaultWiki itself). This would require VaultWiki to become extremely modular from a coding standpoint. I think we would have to do that anyway to add support for any other forum platforms.
However, as the days go on, I grow increasingly more excited about XenForo, and intend to do a port as soon as it's public.
I think it would be useful to clearly voice this concern to Mike and Kier. Having a wiki addon for Xenforo will be much to their advantage, but it remains to be seen if they will provide any promotional platform to allow XenForo admins to find commercial addons. So far they seem against it, but are keeping their ears open.Quote:
Originally Posted by pegasus
Perhaps there's call to move into encouraging a direct wiki within the software by default... perhaps an option for you there pegasus?
We've begun rewriting VaultWiki to support integration with the 3 big commercial names, vBulletin, IPB, XenForo. See: http://www.vaultwiki.org/milestones/8/
Already added support for different template and plugin systems, but a database wrapper is a little trickier.
Because this will involve substantial changes to the code-base, our development site has been taken offline and moved to a local intranet.
Just saw that IPB allows users to list commercial modifications on their site. Amazing.
XenForo 1.0 Beta Release (post is here)
We are targeting a release of XenForo 1.0 Beta 1 in the first week of October 2010, and a specific release date will be announced closer to this time. To be able to download the beta version, you will need to buy a license. There are no restrictions on who may buy a license or how many you may buy. Please note that beta releases are not supported and officially, we don't recommend running beta versions on production sites.
XenForo Prices and Terms
* Early Adopter Special Offer
The beta period will begin with a special offer period, during which licenses will be sold for $100 USD. After 24 hours, licenses will return to the normal price of $140. XenForo will go on sale next Tuesday, October 5th 2010, at some point during UK business hours. The special only lasts one day.
* Support and Updates
A license comes with 12 months of updates and ticket support. 12-month update and support extensions will be purchasable for $40.
Sounds like things are on the move at xenforo !
If you need beta testers for VW with XF I'm keen, I'll be buying the early adopter special and setting it up on a test blog, will be waiting for VW before migrating the live site.
I'm up and running with XF on my new forum, will wait for the XF port before moving over my main site (have a spare XF license ready though ;))
83% Completed - Very good news. I will start to use xf as soon as i get some important Software for it
Important = VaultWiki ;)
Where did you read 83% complete sKippah?
I believe it was at 83% while the VaultWiki 4 stuff didn't have its own milestone. So combined with all the thousands of completed VaultWiki 3 items, it was up to 83%.
It's my belief that the first ~30% will take the longest time and will account for ~80% of the workload, just because they are the foundation that needs to be rock solid.
For those who aren't aware, I'm sure there are other links in other threads, but this is the progress bar we're all discussing: http://www.vaultwiki.org/milestones/9/
The list isn't necessarily complete. It's likely that many large items will be broken up into multiple tasks as we address them.
Ya. now its "just" 29% Completed ;)
A good wiki for xenforo has a bright future.
A simplified version of vaultwiki would be ideal.
Very simplified.
Simplified in what sense? Less features? (i.e. more difficult to the end user) Or making the User Interface simpler to use to the end user? (i.e. expanding the UI in this sense)
Whenever he brings up this point, he tends to imply the "less features" part. Personally I feel:
more features + better UI = easier to use + less confusing
Historically we had some problems getting the UI right and I think we just started to this year:
- "Add new chapter" button in books
- comments below the article
- settings to change forum header locations, rather than basing it on naming conventions
There's still a lot of work to do, like:
- reducing the number of steps to add reusable images
- making the admincp feel like it all works together
But these are issues we're already addressing in VaultWiki 4. Work is slow, because we have to rewrite EVERYTHING, but it's coming along.
inline editing would be a smart move.
adminCP ? Only as a last resort where inline editing wouldn't work.
I just read a new poster that was confused about Books.
They are oddly confusing.
vaultwiki targets the hard core wiki needs. That's a small market vs. the "We need a few documents and a Manual" market.
To make a good forum documentation Tool (wiki) you can't start with Mediawiki in mind, you have to start with the Forum. Porting the current mediawiki-like vaultwiki to xenforo will be met with the same end user confusion.
The wiki demo page here - http://www.vaultwiki.org/demo/ is not what people want or need.
When I look at that demo, it doesn't jump out at me and say ... I want that on my site !
It looks like a mess that I don't want.
Why isn't this the demo page ? http://www.vaultwiki.org/demo/Main-Page
I have heard of some progress like getting rid of NameSpaces.
I also like the new Vaultwiki Manual.
I hope it's easy to create the same effect.
Here's a Mockup of what I suggested.
http://www.vaultwiki.org/attachments/692d1264024964t/
thread - http://www.vaultwiki.org/threads/2393/
The point of the wiki is to make it easy for users to create content.
That should be the starting point.
Very few users can edit Mediawiki.
Vaultwiki is too hard to administer and edit.
Hi Pegasus,Quote:
Originally Posted by pegasus
What is the anticipated date for 4? I notice the milestone is 25/12 but expect this has slipped.
We are working diligently in making a new release that performs better, is easier to use, and contains at least the same features while at the same time making the code abstract enough that it works under different platforms and coding styles. This is an unprecedented undertaking for us so it is nearly impossible to make an estimate based on previous major release development experience.
We wrote VaultWiki from scratch with version 2. It took less than 3 months (March - Jun 2008) but the feature set was still very small at the time and we only had 1 platform to code for (vBulletin 3.7).
Probably more relevant is the release of version 3. This release was for multiple platforms (vBulletin 3.6,7,8 and vBulletin 4) but the code between these were very similar. We originally intended to release version 3 in July 2009, but Beta 1 wasn't released until December 2009. Most of our delay was a result of vBulletin 4 being delayed 4 months.
In the case of VaultWiki 4, we aren't waiting on any new product to be released, so an estimate of 6 months after our first target (12/15) for a beta is probably extremely lax. Most of the delay this time has been simply that there are fewer working days between Thanksgiving and New Years compared to normal months, and due to the large amounts of restructuring the company has been doing since September.
We have to keep in mind that 4 is a complete rewrite, not a gradual refactoring over time. It's simply not possible to do part of a conversion in the interest of time and release it. The software just wouldn't work. That said, I think that if we try to refrain from adding too many new features into the first beta and just focus on perfecting the core and converting most existing features, then we should be able to have beta 1 in February.
XenForo support would be added as part of Beta 2 along with some User Experience improvements.
In Beta 3, we'll be adding IP.Board support and starting on the new features.
We do intend to have the current Feature Request list cleared out by the time version 4 goes Gold. We expect to keep up our normal release schedule of ~3 weeks once we get a beta finished.
Thanks for the update pegasus,
I'm not impatient or putting any pressure to rush a release, and realise all to well the impact of corporate restructure on projects.
I am just interested in which date you are tracking to so I can roughly outline my own roadmap.
Any update on this?
I like xenforo :)
vaultWiki for xenforo = dream.
Almost a reality ?Quote:
Originally Posted by InformationNirvana
https://www.vaultwiki.org/issues/2095/
March 2013 already...