Looking towards 4.1 stable: feature tracker in sidebar? Is there a feature-locked cut-off date?

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Originally Posted by pegasus

XenForo's custom thread fields were first added to XenForo in 2.0. Since our 2.0-compatible version is still in beta and especially since 2.1 was released after we already started alpha, we are not done rolling out support for all the possible tie-ins that were added to XenForo. We expect to add as many of these as possible, including custom field support, before announcing VaultWiki 4.1 as stable.

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Hiya @pegasus ,

Thanks for the many, many hours of development that you have put into adding new features, support for XF2.0/2.1 and more, it really is appreciated!

XenForo 1.5's supported life comes to an end in two week's time, May 31. My public site remains on XF1.5 for the time being so that visitors to the site can continue to utilise the wiki. As it stands, it is unclear what stage the 4.1 development is at. I was wondering whether we could find out a bit more about 4.1's development strategy. Specifically, two things come to mind:

• Does 4.1 have a 'feature-locked' date where full attention turns to bug fixing with no more new features (regardless of what is outstanding)? With XF1.5 becoming end of life very soon and there being no stable upgrade path currently (without dropping VaultWiki indefinitely), this is a concern from my perspective.
• Could a 'feature tracker' side bar be useful? This could list the features that have been implemented (link to issue pages), and also state the number of in-progress or shortlisted features for 4.1 before a stable release. In-progress/shortlisted features could just be a number without linking/describing features individually to avoid disappointment if they are withheld from 4.1 for any reason.

Thanks :)

I expect 3 betas and 2-3 RCs. I do not expect new major tie-ins after beta. Last beta is probably around July. We are not doing a gamma round for 4.1, as 4.1 is already as stable as the early 4.0 stable releases were. The database is already basically locked to major changes (compare the Alpha 1 scripts against later scripts).

In general, VaultWiki feature-locks only for major changes (like rewrites or massive reworks, unless needed to resolve a critical bug). This is due to the nature of supporting multiple forum platforms which are on a different release schedule from us and each other. If the change is significant enough, like XF2 was over 1.5, then we would do another branch and round of betas. But if it's not really significant, like XF 1.5 over 1.4, then we might include the new support within the standard release schedule.

I am hesitant to put a feature tracker on the sidebar. Everyone's ideas of what counts varies, and we don't like announcing which features are going to be in a version until they are actually completed. In some cases, we have given advance notice that certain requests are going to be handled in a different branch, so that people know not to wait for those requests to be filled.

I now have at most 10 items on my shortlist which could possibly be counted as new features, although some of them are so minor, like new toggles or small ease-of-use improvements, that I am not sure that they would be classed as new features to such an extent that they would be affected by a cut-off. There are 4 XF tie-ins that are on that list; you already know what one of them is, and I probably shouldn't have said anything about it.

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Originally Posted by pegasus

I expect 3 betas and 2-3 RCs. I do not expect new major tie-ins after beta. Last beta is probably around July.

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Thanks, this is handy to know. I wasn't a VW customer when 4.0 was in Beta/RC stages... once 4.1 is at RC would you expect that these releases would probably be stable enough for production site usage? With my own site, August (and at a stretch... early September) is realistically probably the latest my site can hold off the XF platform upgrade (any later and I'd need to consider disabling the wiki). The site experiences seasonal traffic towards the end of year and I have a handful of XF2.x built site features (some of them custom) for the 2019 season.

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Originally Posted by pegasus

I am hesitant to put a feature tracker on the sidebar. Everyone's ideas of what counts varies, and we don't like announcing which features are going to be in a version until they are actually completed.

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Yes, I had the same thoughts, believe it or not. To clarify, I was suggesting to identify the feature/related issue only once the feature is implemented.

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Originally Posted by pegasus

In some cases, we have given advance notice that certain requests are going to be handled in a different branch, so that people know not to wait for those requests to be filled.

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Awesome :).

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Originally Posted by pegasus

I now have at most 10 items on my shortlist which could possibly be counted as new features, (sic) there are 4 XF tie-ins that are on that list

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See this is very interesting information and what I suggested in my OP for those 'in-progress' or 'shortlisted' features prior to full implementation. Having the number 10, eventually decreasing to 9 as one feature is implemented would provide some insight into 4.1's status without actually naming the features until they are ready.


Thanks again for the information :cool:

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Originally Posted by pegasus

I expect 3 betas and 2-3 RCs. I do not expect new major tie-ins after beta. Last beta is probably around July. We are not doing a gamma round for 4.1, as 4.1 is already as stable as the early 4.0 stable releases were. The database is already basically locked to major changes (compare the Alpha 1 scripts against later scripts).

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I have the same question as ACL: when is the earliest I could sensibly move to VaultWiki 4.1 for a live site?

Thanks!

Judging by the changelogs, Beta 2 (June) looks like it's starting to be pretty solid.

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Originally Posted by pegasus

Judging by the changelogs, Beta 2 (June) looks like it's starting to be pretty solid.

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Superb, thank you. That will give me time to migrate from vB to XF over the summer, Wiki included.

How far are we from a stable VW product to work on XF2?

We're now moving into "I'm going to have to strip out Vaultwiki and migrate to 2 with an alternative" territory.

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Originally Posted by expanserpb

How far are we from a stable VW product to work on XF2?

We're now moving into "I'm going to have to strip out Vaultwiki and migrate to 2 with an alternative" territory.

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I'm also considering temporarily disabling VaultWiki if it is necessary. I have a range of improvements waiting to roll out on my site (some of them custom), and all of them require XF2.x. Late August/September is probably the latest I can defer these site upgrades. I'd very much rather keep the wiki available but I also don't want to run unsupported alpha/beta releases in a production environment.

Is there anything more/different that we as customers can do to help along the journey to VW4.1 stable for XF2?

Even an answer of "We need more investment" would be acceptable to me

Beta 2 has been released today. We are still on track to have 1 more beta before releasing stable proposals. Beta 2 was delayed due to damage to local critical infrastructure by third parties in June 2019, which has affected ability to use local facilities. My understanding is that the property owners are pursuing the matter through the appropriate channels. Due to possible litigation between involved parties, we cannot really discuss the issue further.

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Originally Posted by expanserpb

Even an answer of "We need more investment" would be acceptable to me

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I wouldn't be totally against this either, if it would legimately give a boost to the timeline for a stable, supported version.

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Originally Posted by pegasus

Beta 2 has been released today. We are still on track to have 1 more beta before releasing stable proposals. Beta 2 was delayed due to damage to local critical infrastructure by third parties...

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It must be frustrating when third-parties bring about unanticipated setbacks. Thank you for your hardwork! Beta 2 (for XF2.1) is installing to my local dev server while I compose this reply.

Is beta 3 coming before the downtime?

Basically I'm doing my upgrade to Xf before the end of September with or without a full release. I intend to move production onto whatever release is out next week so someone might be around to deal with critical issues.

We are doing everything in our power to resolve critical issues and release beta 3 before the downtime. Fingers crossed!

Прива !
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Благодарность заранее.

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